tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post5179361021194335848..comments2024-03-27T05:47:21.295-07:00Comments on Ayn Rand Contra Human Nature: Objectivism: An Autopsy, Part 3Daniel Barneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06359277853862225286noreply@blogger.comBlogger109125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-35276587526380185582018-10-16T06:16:12.842-07:002018-10-16T06:16:12.842-07:00I myself held fairly conservative social and econo...<i> I myself held fairly conservative social and economic views on the eve of the 2009 crash - now I am a socialist - my baseline personality has not changed. Ideas reflect the material changes at the base of society.</i><br /><br />There is an error here that needs to be addressed. Personality is the number one measurable predictor of ideological allegiance, but that doesn't mean everybody's ideology is reflection of their personality. There are all kinds of factors involved, and there exist outliers and exceptions --- people's who's personality doesn't play a large role in their ideological affiliation. But the point is: the fact that their are outliers and exceptions does not refute the general fact that personality is the number one measurable predictor of ideological allegiance.gregnyquisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13653516868316854941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-76199014086680995382018-10-08T09:48:22.373-07:002018-10-08T09:48:22.373-07:00Greg your analysis of the Left and modern Marxism ...Greg your analysis of the Left and modern Marxism is deeply flawed. Post-modernism and identity politics was a reaction to the collapse of all socialist political movements (be they western or eastern versions) as a credible political force in the 1980s when the neo-liberal capitalist model emerged and seemed unassailable. It is not surprising that during the next 30 years most left-leaning activists essentially surrendered to neo-liberal logic and devoted themselves to winning reforms on the margin. But as any good Marxist dialectician will tell you things are constantly in motion and change. The profitability of neo-liberalism was based upon reducing labour costs by a combination of union-busting, new technology, moving to places like China and brining in cheaper migrant labour from the global south. But in doing this the capitalist effectively killed his market as his now impoverished workers didn't earn enough to buy his products. This contradiction was resolved by extending credit to workers to keep them buying his products at the same rate and kicking the debt-time bomb up the road until the entire financial system almost came crashing down in 2009. The massive debts of the Banks was transferred to the State in an eye-watering bailout and the state decided to pass the burden onto the working class through a series of austerity cuts. The result is a decade of stagnant or declining wages, which many workers are starting to conclude is the new normal and are beginning to once again organise collectively on a socialist platform. Bernie Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn were unimaginable 4 years ago, yet both have come very close to political power. I myself held fairly conservative social and economic views on the eve of the 2009 crash - now I am a socialist - my baseline personality has not changed. Ideas reflect the material changes at the base of society.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-45349192131909410922018-06-15T06:11:58.277-07:002018-06-15T06:11:58.277-07:00New evidence regarding declining IQ in western nat...New evidence regarding declining IQ in western nations and environmental factors relating thereof:<br /><br />http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2018/06/13/iq-scores-decline/<br /><br />We know less than we think.gregnyquisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13653516868316854941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-47167307086424242182018-04-20T11:28:36.477-07:002018-04-20T11:28:36.477-07:00"African- American music is America's mos..."African- American music is America's most important contribution to world culture - played everywhere that governments allow it to be played."<br /><br />Soviet citizens used to bootleg American music by making phonographs out of discarded X-ray films. American music (and its popular culture in general) is arguably one of the things best suited to get "the foot in the door" with other cultures, and spread American values. Even the Beatles started out trying to emulate Chuck Berry.<br /><br />So what do white ethno-nationalists intend to do when they get their ethno-state and enforce their pure white values? What pure white culture do they intend to present? Country music? A regression to European classical styles? Or will they simply keep on with rock music and make up some B.S. about how it was always all so white...?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-28899234756181764702018-04-20T09:48:12.727-07:002018-04-20T09:48:12.727-07:00"The previous example of rock music applies: ..."The previous example of rock music applies: rock music is an American invention - but NOT a purely white-derived creation."<br /><br />One can go a lot further: in its essentials, it's a black-derived creation. Just read any history of rock. And then, of course, there's Jazz. And Blues. African- American music is America's most important contribution to world culture - played everywhere that governments allow it to be played.<br /><br />Elvis Presley went stratospheric in the 1950's because he was a white singer doing black music. The racists of that era were totally aware of this fact - and consequently enraged. <br /><br />Incidentally, rock 'n' roll owes its name to a song of 1922 by African American Trixie Smith: "My baby rocks me with one steady roll". I wonder if she'll be remembered in four years when we reach the centennial?Gordon Burkowskinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-60888941406257796822018-04-19T22:33:01.668-07:002018-04-19T22:33:01.668-07:00"Is it sheer chance that what we characterize..."Is it sheer chance that what we characterize as quintessentially "German" was birthed by Germans instead of by Chinese (and vice-versa)? No. The word "nation" comes from the Latin word for "of birth." It refers correctly and originally to ethnos. Shakespeare would not be Shakespeare nor Beethoven Beethoven nor Ben-Gurion Ben-Gurion had they been born abos or bedouin. The nation/ethnos/tribe is the mother of the individual."<br /><br />Which all sounds very pretty until you think about it for a bit. What we think of as "Japanese" comes from Japan, for instance, but what Japan is originally came from China, and then mutated until the two branches were significantly different. Was Japan "born", or did it evolve?<br /><br />What is American - today - comes not only from white settlers, but from influences from other ethnicities. The black slaves have long contributed their part to America's character. Perhaps not as long as the whites, but long enough. The previous example of rock music applies: rock music is an American invention - but NOT a purely white-derived creation. It would be impossible to separate the black from the white, and why try? (Besides, I refuse to support any state that would by definition sneer at and belittle Hendrix.)<br /><br />America today simply IS multiracial and multicultural, and has been for some time, regardless of what some people earlier in history may have intended. That genie is out of the bottle and it would be a Quixotic trial to try and undo that. Even among whites exclusively there is cultural variation - Southerners, East Coast, West Coast, Midwest, and more - regional differences with a variety of perspectives. If you can't rely on the unanimity of the fractious white people, then the ethno-state becomes the pipeiest of pipe dreams.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-19268350225442168622018-04-19T20:12:28.222-07:002018-04-19T20:12:28.222-07:00In case the comment about salt wasn't understo...In case the comment about salt wasn't understood:<br />https://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/16/health/16iodine.htmlGenZ Legionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-4480529624418078232018-04-19T20:06:36.537-07:002018-04-19T20:06:36.537-07:00Burkowski fumes: "Apparently, the word 's...Burkowski fumes: "Apparently, the word 'settler' is acquiring a new meaning here: that of 'white immigrant'."<br /><br />Like it or not, America was founded as a white ethnostate. For example, see the Naturalization Act of 1790. That "millions of Latinos whose ancestors settled in places like California and Texas *before either had been incorporated into the United States* [are] treated by many like strangers" isn't inconsistent. (Emphasis added.)<br /><br />Burkowski: "[later white generations] forget that the same racist nonsense was spewed out upon their own ancestors [...] as is now visited on today's immigrants."<br /><br />That one calls another a dummy in error doesn't mean that dummies do not exist. The average member of those groups back then had a definite opinion about non-whites. We don't have to wonder what his opinion was. The important question is: was he in error?<br /><br />Greg: when you say "seven million blacks in America do better on IQ tests than the average white," you omit that many more millions of average whites do better on IQ tests than blacks. It's likewise true that a number of individuals are apparently immune to HIV/AIDS. Nevertheless, many more are not. And avoiding risky behaviors remains the most efficient way to deal with that problem.<br /><br />Some trillions of dollars in public policy initiatives have been given to blacks worldwide over the past sixty or more years. Considering the results to date, and even any results in the future, this is an inefficient use of finite resources. The surest and least intrusive way that average black IQ can be increased without gross, egalitarianism-based misallocation seems to be to add more salt to the African diet. If blacks want to do this for their fellows, then good for them. But wouldn't you condemn that project as ethnocentric (thus "dangerous"), on the grounds that these blacks would be preferentially helping blacks instead of trying to help whites? I believe that you wouldn't. But if whites tried doing something similar for the (comparatively smaller percentage of) low-IQ whites, it's certain that every public voice would excoriate them as "neoNazi eugenicists," including maybe even you as part of your prudent pursuit of realistic popularity or however you're characterizing your political orientation now. Burkowski would probably report 'em to the nearest modern equivalent of the Stasi, clutching his cell phone in one paw and a copy of "Free To Choose" in the other.<br /><br />Llyod muses: "I identify mostly with my culture and nation and not so much with my race." To paraphrase Rand: "A culture is a 'natural resource,' like a tree, a rock or a mud puddle.... The culture is here. How did it get here? Somehow."<br /><br />Is it sheer chance that what we characterize as quintessentially "German" was birthed by Germans instead of by Chinese (and vice-versa)? No. The word "nation" comes from the Latin word for "of birth." It refers correctly and originally to ethnos. Shakespeare would not be Shakespeare nor Beethoven Beethoven nor Ben-Gurion Ben-Gurion had they been born abos or bedouin. The nation/ethnos/tribe is the mother of the individual. And like the parent/child relationship, the relationship between the individual and the ethnos is reciprocal; the individual can also contribute to or advance the ethnos, but one mustn't get the causation backward. The child may be "father to the man," but he is not father to his father.<br /><br />Llyod again: "There are multiple forms of intelligence and IQ tests do not measure all of them." No, general intelligence (g) is back of all. Would you say, "The factory's machines do many different types of work, therefore the factory's power generator should be discounted"?GenZ Legionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-37481080129458490602018-04-18T09:45:35.623-07:002018-04-18T09:45:35.623-07:00“There is a massive difference between the Europea...“There is a massive difference between the European SETTERS and the post 1965 immigrants. . . Jesus Christ, learn your history ”.<br /><br />I've been inclined to stay out of this debate, largely out of a sense of fastidiousness. But this particular remark is such a startling combination of arrogance and historical ignorance that I just have to weigh in.<br /><br />For the purpose of this argument only, I'll leave aside the glaring and shameful story of how most African Americans got here. Let's talk about “settlers”.<br /><br />Many of the people who came here could be so described. Take the Homestead Acts, the first of which was signed into law in 1862. Some 270 million acres of land was given to 1.6 million homesteaders. That's impressive.<br /><br />Yes, those people were settlers. So were the millions of Latinos whose ancestors settled in places like California and Texas before either had been incorporated into the United States – and who are now for some reason treated by many like strangers in their own land.<br /><br />However, that wasn't the way the overwhelming majority of migrants to America got their start. Thus, between 1880 and 1920 more than 25 million Europeans migrated to the United States. These “settlers” were typically headed for the stockyards of Chicago; the steel mills of Pittsburgh; the garment district of New York. And their “homesteads” were typically a quarter of a room in a jerry-built tenement. <br /><br />Apparently, the word “settler” is acquiring a new meaning here: that of “white immigrant”.<br /><br />In many cases, the great grandchildren of these early “settlers” are doing very well indeed – and they should be proud of that. However, their success sometimes leads them to come up with phoney arguments to show that today's immigrants are different from their own ancestors. And they forget that the same racist nonsense was spewed out upon their own ancestors – on Italian, Jews, Poles – as is now visited on today's immigrants.<br /><br />Yes, history is important. But not the fake kind.Gordon Burkowskinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-43169752155595447982018-04-18T04:48:28.689-07:002018-04-18T04:48:28.689-07:00IQ tests are reliable and they predict accurately ...IQ tests are reliable and they predict accurately all sorts of life outcomes that no one ever anticipated. There are problems with country-wide IQ tests Say you test 17 year olds, you can't just test the students and ignore the dropouts.<br /><br />JCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-66283755618606357792018-04-18T03:30:36.810-07:002018-04-18T03:30:36.810-07:00The number of people murdered on South African far...The number of people murdered on South African farms has been disputed. There have been claims of a number of white farmers murdered that are several times the released numbers of total murders on farms. That said South Africa has a very serious violence problem and whites seem to be the victims of most of the murders on farms. But the murder rate in black urban areas is also high.<br />It seems to be a very serious but overstated problem. But I am not in a position to check the reliability of the sources that I was able to find quickly.Lloyd Flackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00832519369660328832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-87070303638433183812018-04-18T01:24:31.429-07:002018-04-18T01:24:31.429-07:00"NO. They were SETTLERS not immigrants. That&..."NO. They were SETTLERS not immigrants. That's "proposition nation" bullshit. There is a massive difference between the European SETTERS and the post 1965 immigrants."<br /><br />Tomayto, tomahto. The point is that no person of European descent in the US can claim inherent ownership of the land by virtue of their race originating here. Your ancestors and mine all came over long after the land was already inhabited by another race. The idea that you're going to try to separate the races and cordon off parts of the US at this point is absurd on the face of it, and as I said, if you were going to do it properly you'd get on a plane to Europe and seek out your own ethnic-sub-group and build your state there.<br /><br />"but it nevertheless remains that the greatest challenge for humanity is to solve the problem of group differences and racial tribalism."<br /><br />And your solution seems to be to make tribalism more blatant and pronounced. Like burning the village in order to save it.<br /><br />Also, I'll see your "feral savages" and raise you gun-waving militia compounds in the northwest woods and Klan members in the South. Blacks have no monopoly on dealing violence to people who stray into dangerous territory.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-38796010381335049972018-04-18T01:20:37.303-07:002018-04-18T01:20:37.303-07:00"But this comment makes my blood boil because..."But this comment makes my blood boil because of its stupidity:"<br /><br />I'd be willing to bet it makes your blood boil more because it doesn't accept your excuses.<br /><br />"If I knew nothing about hereditarianism but only knew the history of multi-ethnic societies and the history of the fate of Whites when they lose their countries to blacks... If I knew nothing but what is going on in South Africa TODAY as they increase their racially based land seizures and push ever further towards white genocide... That would be ENOUGH to SANELY argue for white ethno-states and racial SURVIVAL. Again you people are engaging in a massive inversion of the normal as the deranged and the sane as the immoral. You're doing what Leftists always do: pathologize biologically normal behavior. "<br /><br />Speaking of the "Objectivists we always criticize", this framing of things in terms of pathology and sane vs. deranged, that's CLASSIC Randspeak.<br /><br />Look, humans have all sorts of responses that are natural, but in a civilized society are not desirable. It would be natural to lust after a beautiful woman, but a civilized society discourages acting on that lust without regard to the woman's own feelings. You may envy another man's wealth and that would be natural, but theft is discouraged. It may be natural to want to physically attack a person that frightens you, but unless they actually are threatening you, you ought not to act on that impulse, even though it might be the most natural thing in the world.<br /><br />Seeing other races as a thing apart from you and wishing to sequester yourselves away may have some natural foundation in the human brain, but again, not everything that is "natural" is good or desirable.<br /><br />What's going on in South Africa is terrible, to be sure. But it would be alarmist to draw some kind of conclusion from these things you present to say the white race - such as it is, as if it were some kind of monolith - is in danger of extinction. Everyone involved in this discussion will be long dead before that could ever come to pass. And what exactly is it that you are wishing to preserve? Skin color itself? Vitamin D production? Some nebulous idea of "white culture" or "white values"? The problem with the whole idea is that there's no clear-cut idea of the thing that is supposedly at risk of disappearing, or if there is, if it could actually be so easily destroyed it's ultimately not really of much value.<br /><br />Look at music in the US. Ever since black musicians incorporated some white folk music elements into the blues, ever since jazz, blues, and other black musics inspired rock and roll, and so on, the cultures of white music and black music have been a yin-yang mixture. What then is a purely white form of music? Classical? What do you try to preserve? What do you listen to on the radio - Wagner and Beethoven?<br /><br />You can't preserve any culture by trying to prevent change. We are not anywhere near the same culture that white people had a hundred years ago. The white ethno-state is not a path to salvation, it's a formula for stagnation.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-44649250350995298842018-04-17T16:01:02.769-07:002018-04-17T16:01:02.769-07:00And to the extend that libertarianism tries to red...And to the extend that libertarianism tries to reduce human relationships to matters of property it goes against human nature and seeks something appalling.<br />And Madmax's hostility to the lower classes and to anyone that he thinks would not do well under libertarianism is showing through.<br />Oh, and I'm a centrist who tries to balance competing moral issues and thinks ideological purity is generally a bad idea. Lloyd Flackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00832519369660328832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-6540801616145549392018-04-17T15:41:20.840-07:002018-04-17T15:41:20.840-07:00I look forward to the mongrelization of humanity. ...I look forward to the mongrelization of humanity. One more source of conflict will have been eliminated.<br />And I think Madmar is looking for reasons to make a big deal out of race. I think it provides someone to feel superior to and to scapegoat. Lloyd Flackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00832519369660328832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-28657802598494566212018-04-17T12:14:57.840-07:002018-04-17T12:14:57.840-07:00One more:
"I deal with individual members or...One more:<br /><br />"I deal with individual members or other races, not the race as a whole."<br /><br />This is so ignorant I understand why Larry Auster and all the smart and well read Paleo-right wingers used to make fun of me when I said the same crap a decade ago. <br /><br />YOU DO DEAL WITH THE WHOLE RACE. Your taxes go to sustain them. Your college admissions (or those of your children) is affected by their presence. The value of your dollar is affected by the inflation necessary to continue the subsidy that sustains their existence. Your real estate prices are affected by the distance ( or lack of it) from the enclaves of the those low IQ races. If you step foot out of the nice white (or predominately white) area that you are caged in then you could suffer anything from robbery to BRUTAL SLAUGHTER if you are unfortunate enough to encounter one of the feral savages which comprise a not insignificant percentage of the black race. Indeed your very society is moving backwards instead of outwards towards the stars because we have the albatross around our necks that is the burden of dealing with the African and Meso-American races. I could go on for pages. <br /><br />Now if you are a libertarian you can scream at me about eliminating the welfare state or ending the Federal Reserve or whatever pro-liberty policy you can name. Or if you are a leftist (god help you) then you can harangue me with even more Rawlsian solutions. But the fact remains, we know no way of dealing with these difference politically because there is not the will to create a libertarian social order and it is not within human nature to create an egalitarian (leftist) one. <br /><br />So my point: YOU DO DEAL WITH THE WHOLE RACE and you're a fool for thinking that you don't. I'll tell you what Larry Auster told me 9 years ago. "Your libertarian beliefs are an example of delusional utopianism. They also show why individualism is not grounded in human nature. Grow up."madmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14375140131881725965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-17676605663898934212018-04-17T11:57:21.394-07:002018-04-17T11:57:21.394-07:00The level of commentary here continues to be uninf...The level of commentary here continues to be uninformed, even that of Mr. "specialist in human nature" himself Greg Nyquist. But this comment makes my blood boil because of its stupidity:<br /><br />"I mean, since the whole point in bringing the race/IQ issue up in a non-clinical discussion such as this is virtually ALWAYS to justify some kind of discrimination or apartheid, it just never comes up without someone angling to lobby for "the white ethnostate" or something similar"<br /><br />If I knew nothing about hereditarianism but only knew the history of multi-ethnic societies and the history of the fate of Whites when they lose their countries to blacks... If I knew nothing but what is going on in South Africa TODAY as they increase their racially based land seizures and push ever further towards white genocide... That would be ENOUGH to SANELY argue for white ethno-states and racial SURVIVAL. Again you people are engaging in a massive inversion of the normal as the deranged and the sane as the immoral. You're doing what Leftists always do: pathologize biologically normal behavior. <br /><br />"Do I, living in a land of virtually NOTHING BUT IMMIGRANTS"<br /><br />NO. They were SETTLERS not immigrants. That's "proposition nation" bullshit. There is a massive difference between the European SETTERS and the post 1965 immigrants. Jesus Christ, learn your history. <br /><br />"Don't overestimate your numbers. Don't assume you speak for the majority of white people."<br /><br />Don't underestimate your opposition. Also, get back to me in three or four generations when Whites become a minority and the country becomes hostile to them. Let's see what politics looks like then. <br /><br />"For my part, I don't think any of this science is sufficient to change or alter basic human rights for any sub-group of humans. If IQ were a good enough reason in and of itself, then one would have to justify discrimination against any individual whose IQ fell under some benchmark score, white people included. But somehow white identitarianism doesn't seem to start by tending its own garden..."<br /><br />This is why libertarianism as it is now is going nowhere. If it does not integrate racial science it will have no future. There are answers to this objection largely having to do with suppression of the breeding of the lower classes but it nevertheless remains that the greatest challenge for humanity is to solve the problem of group differences and racial tribalism. The best libertarian scholars to date (Misesean/Rothbardian/Hoppean traditions) have conducted a very important research project aimed at solving the problems inherent in governments, reducing human interaction down to private property and creating a society free from parasitism, larceny and predation. But they HAVE NOT solved the problem of how to create that society nor how to overcome racial differences. Racial Conservatism is therefore an ABSOLUTE NECESSITY for the near future when it becomes clear that multi-racialism is going to fail. <br /><br />It is you people who are "Contra Human Nature". Again, you are no different than the Objectivists you criticize. madmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14375140131881725965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-18085911359104338362018-04-17T08:13:58.211-07:002018-04-17T08:13:58.211-07:00I'm not an expert on Ireland, but by he early ...<i>I'm not an expert on Ireland, but by he early 70s it was still poor, rural and non-industrialized. So it could be an example of an accelerated Flynn Effect. Ireland did in a few decades what it took other countries 100 years.</i><br /><br />It could be an accelerated Flynn Effect, but how do we explain the Flynn Effect? Keep in mind, Irish IQ was rising in accordance with Irish income. So how do we explain this? I'm not sure we can -- which, again, should counsel a fair degree of intellectual humility.<br /><br /><i>One thing I've noted about national IQ scores is that they jump around a bit and that the outliers tend to be the lower scores.</i><br /><br />This raises another issue: imprecision of testing. IQ is considered among the best measurable social science we have at our disposal, but that really isn't saying much. The fact is, not much in the social sciences can be measured all that effectively. That's especially true of environmentally/cultural factors. Very hard to measure, very hard to determine, accurately and objectively, their affect on social outcomes, very hard to know what, if anything, can be done about them. But just because some phenomenon is difficult to measure, or document, or isolate as a variable doesn't mean you can assume it doesn't exist. The notion that what can't be measured isn't real constitutes a gross excess of scientism.<br /><br /><br />gregnyquisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13653516868316854941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-40353833629116756202018-04-17T02:57:18.683-07:002018-04-17T02:57:18.683-07:00The proportion of variation in IQ that heredity is...The proportion of variation in IQ that heredity is responsible for will vary depending on how much variation in upbringing there is. If there is little variation between groups then most of the variation will be due to heredity. If there is a lot then the proportion due to heredity will be less.<br />But it really does not matter much to me. I identify mostly with my culture and nation and not so much with my race. I deal with individual members or other races, not the race as a whole.<br />Average differences between races are relevant to what you can realistically expect out of social programs. However the consequences of being wrong if the differences are small are worse than the consequences of being wrong if the differences are large. Thus assuming rough equality is the safer choice if there is considerable doubt. And I do not trust the motives of those arguing that there are large differences. There is too much scope for confirmation bias and hence before I will spend a lot of effort examining claims of large racial differences I need to know that those claiming that there are large differences want to be wrong.Lloyd Flackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00832519369660328832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-69897161361081057012018-04-16T18:19:41.657-07:002018-04-16T18:19:41.657-07:00Greg. One thing I've noted about national IQ ...Greg. One thing I've noted about national IQ scores is that they jump around a bit and that the outliers tend to be the lower scores.<br /><br />jcAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-16405610563933680422018-04-16T05:40:18.916-07:002018-04-16T05:40:18.916-07:00Greg,
I'm not an expert on Ireland, but by he...Greg,<br /><br />I'm not an expert on Ireland, but by he early 70s it was still poor, rural and non-industrialized. So it could be an example of an accelerated Flynn Effect. Ireland did in a few decades what it took other countries 100 years.<br /><br />Also, that's the lowest score. If you drop the lowest and the highest (PISA) score you get a definite trend upwards, but not so dramatic. (90-97)<br /><br />http://www.unz.com/runz/raceiq-irish-iq-chinese-iq/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-77229212183311249812018-04-16T04:44:43.284-07:002018-04-16T04:44:43.284-07:00Lloyd
"But with race and IQ what we have to ...Lloyd<br /><br />"But with race and IQ what we have to do is admit ignorance. We cannot adequately disentangle hereditary influences from those of upbringing and should be willing to admit that."<br /><br />This is incorrect. Using studies of twins adopted into different families at birth we can determine that IQ is largely hereditary - probably close to 70 percent. And as Jensen said, the default position is what accounts for the differences within groups most likely causes the differences between groups. <br /><br />You are also ignoring the other evidence such as admixture studies, brain size differences in ethnic groups, regression to the mean and Spearman's hypothesis.<br /><br />Greg,<br /><br />I don't know if that number for Ireland is correct. Assume it is, it can probably be explained by regression to the mean. Ireland had large outmigration for decades and immigrants tend to be middle class, which means higher IQ. So it maybe that after the emigration stopped, Ireland's IQ went back to its natural level. Incidentally Ireland still isn't producing scientists on the level of France and England.<br /><br />If North Korea stopped enslaving its populace I wouldn't be surprised if the North Korean IQ shot up.<br /><br />" For those objecting to blacks on the basis of low IQ, what is there problem with blacks with IQ's higher than the average white? What about the 15% or so of white with IQs below 83? Again, for those who have a problem with low IQ individuals, why don't they have a problem with whites with low IQs? "<br /><br />I'm not objecting to blacks, just pointing out the reality of IQ differences. A concern though is regression to the mean. High IQ blacks will tend to produce lower IQ children. That's why you get the Shaker Heights phenomenon. Shaker Heights is a wealthy black suburb of Cleveland. Its schools aren't Cleveland but they aren't as good as the typical white school.<br /><br />I'd put it this way - just because groups have low floors doesn't mean they have equally high ceilings. The IQs of Blacks didn't shoot up when they moved North or as the Black/White culture in the US converged starting in the 50s.<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-72791819922681325782018-04-15T13:46:41.668-07:002018-04-15T13:46:41.668-07:00Occam's razor is a rule of thumb rather than a...Occam's razor is a rule of thumb rather than a rigorous method. It is choose the explanation that makes the least assumptions. But with race and IQ what we have to do is admit ignorance. We cannot adequately disentangle hereditary influences from those of upbringing and should be willing to admit that.<br />And then the is the question whether reducing the measure of intelligence to a single number is very useful if one is looking at social questions. There are multiple forms of intelligence and IQ tests do not measure all of them. In particular they do not measure understanding of others and understanding of oneself. And these unmeasured forms of intelligence are arguably the ones which have the most influence on socially undesirable behaviour.<br />When we can identify the average difference between races in intelligence do not be surprised if the differences are not in the same direction for all forms of intelligence.<br />Meanwhile since race is at best a very crude predictor of intelligence it is not much use when we deal with any individual.Lloyd Flackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00832519369660328832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-72653128164679445602018-04-15T12:39:16.577-07:002018-04-15T12:39:16.577-07:00For my part, I don't think any of this science...<i>For my part, I don't think any of this science is sufficient to change or alter basic human rights for any sub-group of humans.</i><br /><br />Exactly correct. But there's another side to this issue which needs to be mentioned. The reason why these statistical averages of IQ of certain racial groups are seen as a valid objection to living with those groups is because certain types of socially dysfunctionally behavior statistically correlate with low IQ. However, there's a logical problem here which illustrates the treacherous nature of statistical averages. If IQ is the primary source of one's objection to certain racial groups, wouldn't it make more sense, on a strictly logical point of view, to discriminate on the basis of IQ rather than race? Because as it so happens there's a wide range of IQ within social groups that statistical averages tend to conceal. Seven million blacks in America do better on IQ tests than the average white. For those objecting to blacks on the basis of low IQ, what is there problem with blacks with IQ's higher than the average white? What about the 15% or so of white with IQs below 83? Again, for those who have a problem with low IQ individuals, why don't they have a problem with whites with low IQs? gregnyquisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13653516868316854941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-1305890170489506642018-04-15T11:48:57.739-07:002018-04-15T11:48:57.739-07:00At some point doesn't our friend Mr. Occam pro...<i>At some point doesn't our friend Mr. Occam provide the most reasonable explanation?</i><br /><br />I'm not actually a big fan of Occam's razor. The simplest explanation isn't always the correct one because reality can be very complicated. Furthermore, no one is forcing us to come to a conclusion. Sometimes the best solution is to admit there's a great deal we don't know. In the early 1970s, the average Irish IQ was 87 (close to the average black IQ in the U.S.), but today Ireland's PISA scores (essentially an academic tests that can approximate an IQ test) are roughly the same as France and Britain. How is this to be explained? The fact is, there's still quite a bit we don't know. We don't know how much to assign to the genetics and how much to assign to environment/culture, nor do we know much about how environment and culture may affect the development of the individuals genetically determined intelligence potential. Now given the controversial nature of this subject, it would behoove all of us to approach the issue with some measure of intellectual humility and not be so quick to make sweeping and quite possibly unwarranted conclusions.<br /><br />gregnyquisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13653516868316854941noreply@blogger.com