tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post7311898092108794205..comments2024-03-27T05:47:21.295-07:00Comments on Ayn Rand Contra Human Nature: Rand & Human Nature 8Daniel Barneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06359277853862225286noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-77195224272469641262011-10-03T22:07:51.826-07:002011-10-03T22:07:51.826-07:00bla blabla blaDamienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02691850040385670009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-5818098445387764062011-10-01T10:59:08.191-07:002011-10-01T10:59:08.191-07:00Hayek was relatively more open minded and empirica...Hayek was relatively more open minded and empirical in his approach to economics and politics than most libertarians. He did believe in safety nets.Xtra Lajhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17166565583455141813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-81246571809098029802011-10-01T10:56:31.164-07:002011-10-01T10:56:31.164-07:00Rey, my disagreement with you is quite mild and is...Rey, my disagreement with you is quite mild and is partly based on the fact that control can eliminate or reduce one's ability to experience an emotion. I am not saying this validates Rand's announced critiques of emotions, but that the moralist perspective is not completely without merit.Xtra Lajhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17166565583455141813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-85021623170338464172011-10-01T05:33:23.345-07:002011-10-01T05:33:23.345-07:00Hayek was not a supporter of uncompromising laisse...Hayek was not a supporter of uncompromising laissez nor a complete opponent of the welfare state.<br /><br />-Neil ParilleNeil Parillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11074901258306769278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-90350075245861969162011-09-30T12:15:29.577-07:002011-09-30T12:15:29.577-07:00OT: Here's a piece about how Hayek, like Rand,...OT: Here's <a href="http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/09/friedrich-hayek-joins-ayn-rand-as-a-hypocritical-user-of-medicare.html" rel="nofollow">a piece</a> about how Hayek, like Rand, took advantage of SS and Medicare when given the opportunity. It even quotes Rands classic, "There can be no compromise on basic principles. There can be no compromise on moral issues. There can be no compromise on matters of knowledge, of truth, of rational conviction."<br /><br />Xtra Laj: "What you are saying sounds a bit like 'I don't see how smiling means that someone is happy unless it is a real smile.'"<br /><br />Well, not every smile is sincere, is it? Ask any service industry employee who deals with the public.<br /><br />"...one can at least deplore negative emotions because they are often even if not always connected to negative actions."<br /><br />Doesn't it really depend on the person--their self-awareness, self-control, their sense of right-and-wrong, etc.--as to whether they negative emotions "often even if not always" lead to negative actions? I experience negative emotions every day. Anger, for instance.<br /><br />I get angry at people on the bus who take up two seats and won't give one up to people who are standing. I mean, it's not like they bought two (or three!) tickets, did they? But that anger could lead to negative actions--say, me assaulting someone for taking up too much space--or a positive action like persuading the bus driver to enforce the one-butt, one-seat rule or so that more people can sit.<br /><br />There's even a third option, which is the route I usually go: Inaction. I get angry, give them the stink-eye for a few blocks, and then let it go and get on with my life.<br /><br />My main problem with Rand making feelings a moral battleground is it leads to people not being willing to admit that they even have certain feelings for fear of being condemned. Rand herself fell into this trap when Nathaniel Branden started his affair with Patrecia Scott. Rather than admit that she was jealous and engage in a little introspection to figure out how to deal with those feelings, she denied that she was jealous at all and transmuted Branden's preference for younger, prettier women into a beyond-the-pall moral failing.Reynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-3687712438094623832011-09-26T20:34:45.263-07:002011-09-26T20:34:45.263-07:00I dunno, Xtra Laj, I really don't see how havi...<i>I dunno, Xtra Laj, I really don't see how having negative feelings (for example, anger, hate, or jealousy) is a moral issue unless I act one them in a way that hurts myself or others.</i><br /><br />What you are saying sounds a bit like "I don't see how smiling means that someone is happy unless it is a real smile." My point is that thought and action are intimately connected and while one may not lead to the other, one can at least deplore negative emotions because they are often even if not always connected to negative actions.<br /><br />I also understand your view ( and lean more towards it), but my point is that I can see why someone would disagree with you.<br /><br />My point on crimes was not bound up with crimes per se, but with the fact that we want to know why someone did something we consider a crime - sometimes, understanding why someone did something changes our view of that thing or at least, the morality of the person that did it.Xtra Lajhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17166565583455141813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-36574995289522831052011-09-26T11:18:33.661-07:002011-09-26T11:18:33.661-07:00I dunno, Xtra Laj, I really don't see how havi...I dunno, Xtra Laj, I really don't see how having negative feelings (for example, anger, hate, or jealousy) is a moral issue unless I act one them in a way that hurts myself or others.<br /><br />"...but sometimes, what and how you feel influences whether you are willing to restrain yourself or not."<br /><br />I must be dense, because I still don't see a moral dimension to any feeling until there is an action that stems from the feeling.<br /><br />I grant the close connections among emotion, motivation, and action, and if someone repeatedly has feelings that spill over into actions that hurt themselves or others (or feelings that disincline them from refraining from such actions), then they need to get counseling to cope with those emotions in a non-harmful way.<br /><br />I also don't quite understand your point about motives in crimes. A crime has to first be committed before the state looks into the motivation behind it. Even for aspirational crimes like conspiracy, the conspirators must take active steps ("one overt act" is usually the standard) toward realizing a crime. Merely having unacted-upon aspirations of illegality isn't enough to get one jailed (unless one lives in a totalitarian police state).Reynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-29725732594004835632011-09-23T03:56:50.262-07:002011-09-23T03:56:50.262-07:00Rey,
Given the experienced link between thought a...Rey,<br /><br />Given the experienced link between thought and action, I don't think that your position is fully tenable. After all, our justice system does consider motive in arriving at a fuller view of a crime. I know what you are getting at, but sometimes, what and how you feel influences whether you are willing to restrain yourself or not.Xtra Lajhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17166565583455141813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-59993285781930630992011-09-22T05:47:03.102-07:002011-09-22T05:47:03.102-07:00I think the idea that some emotions are moral and ...I think the idea that some emotions are moral and others are immoral to be wrongheaded. As far as I'm concerned, you feel what you feel--whether it's from innate preferences, life experiences, one's "premises" or some combination of factors. Right and wrong doesn't enter into it until you act on those emotions.Reynoreply@blogger.com