tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post9105133607401395874..comments2024-03-27T05:47:21.295-07:00Comments on Ayn Rand Contra Human Nature: Election 08: Who would Rand vote for?Daniel Barneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06359277853862225286noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-85258633637957007532008-11-12T05:31:00.000-08:002008-11-12T05:31:00.000-08:00___________________________________Red Grant,Many ...___________________________________<BR/><BR/>Red Grant,<BR/><BR/>Many of the ideals of Western civilization are relatively modern, and for the most part people in the medieval and ancient west did not share them with us,... - Damien<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Indeed, they didn't. So were they "Western"?<BR/><BR/>or <BR/><BR/>something else?<BR/><BR/><BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/>....but they are western values none the less. - Damien<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Were institutional racism, colonialism, anti-semitism, Manifest Destiny, race-based slavery part of "Western" values as well?<BR/><BR/>or<BR/><BR/>they were not "relatively modern"?<BR/><BR/><BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/>But even so, some of the ideas that over time led to our modern concept of liberty... - damien<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>On their own? or something else triggered it?<BR/><BR/><BR/>Did secularim have something to do with it?<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/>Red Grant,<BR/><BR/>The American Constitution is in many ways <BR/><BR/>an improvement on the Magna Carta. - Damien<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>In what way?<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/>Even if the ideas in the Magna Carta did not directly lead to the American revolution, <BR/><BR/>some of those ideas were used to justify it. - Damien<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>What were some of those ideas?Red Granthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08066324554026925595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-25476569508807221012008-11-11T21:08:00.000-08:002008-11-11T21:08:00.000-08:00Red Grant,The American Constitution is in many way...Red Grant,<BR/><BR/>The American Constitution is in many ways an improvement on the Magna Carta. Even if the ideas in the Magna Carta did not directly lead to the American revolution, some of those ideas were used to justify it.Damienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02691850040385670009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-51221021311702626832008-11-11T21:06:00.000-08:002008-11-11T21:06:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Damienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02691850040385670009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-71030928494146091102008-11-11T19:18:00.000-08:002008-11-11T19:18:00.000-08:00___________________________________Red Grant,Many ...___________________________________<BR/><BR/>Red Grant,<BR/><BR/>Many of the ideals of Western civilization are relatively modern, and for the most part people in the medieval and ancient west did not share them with us,... - Damien<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Indeed, they didn't. So were they "Western"?<BR/><BR/>or <BR/><BR/>something else?<BR/><BR/><BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/>....but they are western values none the less. - Damien<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Were institutional racism, colonialism, anti-semitism, Manifest Destiny, race-based slavery part of "Western" values as well?<BR/><BR/>or<BR/><BR/>they were not "relatively modern"?<BR/><BR/><BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/> But even so, some of the ideas that over time led to our modern concept of liberty... - damien<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>On their own? or something else triggered it?<BR/><BR/><BR/>Did secularim have something to do with it?<BR/><BR/><BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/>.... for example, can trace their roots well into the past. Have you heard of the Magna Carta? - Damien<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Of course. <BR/><BR/>So why the colonists declare independence from the British Crown despite Magna Carta?Red Granthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08066324554026925595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-25230687848806201422008-11-11T14:18:00.000-08:002008-11-11T14:18:00.000-08:00Red Grant,Many of the ideals of Western civilizati...Red Grant,<BR/><BR/>Many of the ideals of Western civilization are relatively modern, and for the most part people in the medieval and ancient west did not share them with us, but they are western values none the less. But even so, some of the ideas that over time led to our modern concept of liberty for example, can trace their roots well into the past. Have you heard of the Magna Carta?Damienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02691850040385670009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-14670940748001962202008-11-11T07:46:00.000-08:002008-11-11T07:46:00.000-08:00FloridaFloridaHerbSewellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06612165300491693085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-64363014338052996822008-11-11T07:04:00.000-08:002008-11-11T07:04:00.000-08:00___________________________________The western val...___________________________________<BR/><BR/>The western values that are worth defending and worth dying for are freedom, tolerance, diversity, respect for human life, individual rights, human rights, women's rights, men's rights, equality before the law, religious liberty, freedom of conscious, humanity, human decency, our children, the well being of future generations, the right to question authority, etc... - damien<BR/>-----------------------------------<BR/><BR/>So how do you explain, inquisition, Crusade, institutional racism, colonialism, anti-semitism, Manifest Destiny, race-based slavery? - Red Grant<BR/>-----------------------------------<BR/><BR/>Red Grant,<BR/><BR/>Western civilization has not been perfect. No society has ever been in the real world. - Damien<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>My question was not about whether "Western" civilization has been perfect or not.<BR/><BR/>My question was:<BR/><BR/>"So how do you explain, inquisition, Crusade, institutional racism, colonialism, anti-semitism, Manifest Destiny, race-based slavery?" <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/>Red,<BR/><BR/>Did you go to law school? Your style of questioning looks a lot like the Socratic method that is used heavily in law schools.<BR/><BR/>I like it. - Jay<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>No, but I thought about it, (eventually decided against it, glad that I did.)<BR/><BR/><BR/>One of my friends who did go to the Law School and became an attorney in Chicago, eventually quit after about 10 years.<BR/><BR/>He told me that beginning lawyers are more like glorified office clerks, doing a real grunt work, "research" punching as many hours they could to bill the clients as they could get away with it.<BR/><BR/>Then, only then, they might consider making you into a partner.<BR/><BR/>He drove a cab for a few years after quitting the law.<BR/><BR/>Now, he has moved to Nova Scotia to become a small businessman.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Another friend of my friend who went to Law School (Creighton no less), now works as a waitress in a French style bistro.<BR/><BR/>She's happier now.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Unless you enjoy being a professional sophist (or as I prefer to call, an intellectual prostitute), you might consider against it.<BR/><BR/>Just learned to become vigilant about accepting conventional wisdom after being burned too many times.Red Granthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08066324554026925595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-82877706570859870452008-11-11T05:36:00.000-08:002008-11-11T05:36:00.000-08:00Herb,In which geographic area of the country do yo...Herb,<BR/><BR/>In which geographic area of the country do you reside?SaraGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00606997513245362638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-89194456192563818382008-11-10T17:41:00.000-08:002008-11-10T17:41:00.000-08:00Red,Did you go to law school? Your style of questi...Red,<BR/><BR/>Did you go to law school? Your style of questioning looks a lot like the Socratic method that is used heavily in law schools.<BR/><BR/>I like it.JayCrosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15565955869872328326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-73427932975494753952008-11-10T17:20:00.000-08:002008-11-10T17:20:00.000-08:00Red Grant,Western civilization has not been perfec...Red Grant,<BR/><BR/>Western civilization has not been perfect. No society has ever been in the real world.Damienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02691850040385670009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-76244411026762737962008-11-10T05:01:00.000-08:002008-11-10T05:01:00.000-08:00___________________________________Sorry Red, misi...___________________________________<BR/><BR/>Sorry Red, misinterpreted. - Andy<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>No problem, often times people confuse where I stand because I ask those with different views from mine rhetorical questions leading to the ultimate logical conclusion of their own views to clarify their views.<BR/><BR/><BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/>To Red:<BR/><BR/>I'm sorry, but I've lost interest in conversing with you. I'm not accomplishing anything by doing so,... - Herbsewell<BR/>-----------------------------------<BR/><BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/>Objective is anything that can be proven to be true or false, meaning it's validity is dependent on reality, <BR/><BR/>as opposed to subjective that is based on one views of reality, or statements about reality that is based on faith. - Herbswell<BR/>-----------------------------------<BR/><BR/>Who decides who and what is anti-American objectively? - Red Grant<BR/><BR/><BR/>Individuals decide what is true and what is false. Their evaluation might be contradictory. - Herbswell<BR/><BR/>-----------------------------------<BR/>"Does this mean then you believe that "morality" is relative to each individual?" - Red Grant<BR/><BR/>Of course it's relative. - Herbswell<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Does this mean then you believe that there is no such thing as objective morality?<BR/><BR/>or<BR/><BR/>Are you contradicting yourself?<BR/><BR/>11/08/2008 07:26:00 AMRed Granthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08066324554026925595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-74203817557925324972008-11-10T04:52:00.000-08:002008-11-10T04:52:00.000-08:00___________________________________The western val...___________________________________<BR/><BR/>The western values that are worth defending and worth dying for are freedom, tolerance, diversity, respect for human life, individual rights, human rights, women's rights, men's rights, equality before the law, religious liberty, freedom of conscious, humanity, human decency, our children, the well being of future generations, the right to question authority, etc... - damien<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Splendid! I have no problem with the values you've mentioned above.<BR/><BR/><BR/>So how do you explain, inquisition, Crusade, institutional racism, colonialism, anti-semitism, Manifest Destiny, race-based slavery?Red Granthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08066324554026925595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-81209275996924947082008-11-09T15:46:00.000-08:002008-11-09T15:46:00.000-08:00To Red: I'm sorry, but I've lost interest in c...To Red:<BR/><BR/> I'm sorry, but I've lost interest in conversing with you. I'm not accomplishing anything by doing so, and it seems to be a waste of time. You seem to be asking the same questions again and again and I'm becoming tired of it.HerbSewellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06612165300491693085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-90079190654599024332008-11-09T12:09:00.000-08:002008-11-09T12:09:00.000-08:00Sorry Red, misinterpreted.Sorry Red, misinterpreted.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-4294690375284498702008-11-09T10:02:00.000-08:002008-11-09T10:02:00.000-08:00Red Grant, "The least we could do and should do is...Red Grant, <BR/><BR/>"The least we could do and should do is stand up for our values. - damien"<BR/><BR/>The western values that are worth defending and worth dying for are freedom, tolerance, diversity, respect for human life, individual rights, human rights, women's rights, men's rights, equality before the law, religious liberty, freedom of conscious, humanity, human decency, our children, the well being of future generations, the right to question authority, etc...Damienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02691850040385670009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-79101617405082548752008-11-09T07:37:00.000-08:002008-11-09T07:37:00.000-08:00___________________________________Red Grant:"What...___________________________________<BR/><BR/>Red Grant:<BR/><BR/>"What should we do about all Muslims?"<BR/>-----------------------------<BR/>A better question:<BR/><BR/>What should we do about all Christians?<BR/><BR/>Or for that matter.<BR/><BR/>What should do about religion? - Andy<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Andy, please take it easy.<BR/><BR/>My question to damien was more of a rhetorical question.Red Granthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08066324554026925595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-89134799453601846182008-11-09T07:12:00.000-08:002008-11-09T07:12:00.000-08:00Red Grant:"What should we do about all Muslims?"--...Red Grant:<BR/><BR/>"What should we do about all Muslims?"<BR/>-----------------------------<BR/>A better question:<BR/><BR/>What should we do about all Christians?<BR/><BR/>Or for that matter.<BR/><BR/>What should do about religion?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-12467508238885070232008-11-08T20:16:00.000-08:002008-11-08T20:16:00.000-08:00___________________________________The least we co...___________________________________<BR/><BR/>The least we could do and should do is stand up for our values. - damien<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Okay, so what is your value?Red Granthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08066324554026925595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-30716079642501841092008-11-08T19:59:00.000-08:002008-11-08T19:59:00.000-08:00___________________________________Not all of them...___________________________________<BR/><BR/>Not all of them are going to think or behave the way their religion dictates. - damien<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>A muslim not behaving the way Islam dictates, ...<BR/><BR/><BR/>Isn't that a contradiction?<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/>There is no one thing we can do about all Muslims. - damien<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Cop out?Red Granthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08066324554026925595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-28962689797008011362008-11-08T12:10:00.000-08:002008-11-08T12:10:00.000-08:00Red Grant,There is no one thing we can do about al...Red Grant,<BR/><BR/>There is no one thing we can do about all Muslims. Not all of them are going to think or behave the way their religion dictates.Damienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02691850040385670009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-81196036371448858972008-11-08T08:33:00.000-08:002008-11-08T08:33:00.000-08:00___________________________________Which is the tr...___________________________________<BR/><BR/>Which is the true Muslim? They all are true Muslims, functioning in different circumstances. - Citizen Warrior<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>So, damien, what do you suggest we should do about all Muslims?Red Granthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08066324554026925595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-48083796977018260242008-11-08T08:19:00.000-08:002008-11-08T08:19:00.000-08:00___________________________________As for Peikoff ...___________________________________<BR/><BR/>As for Peikoff why would anything listen to what that half wit says? - anon<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>You would be surprised how many so-called "intellectuals" who fancy themselves to be libertarians still read Peikoff's works like a bible.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/>Have you read his book the Ominous parallels? - anon<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>I tried to read, and eventually skimmed through it. (Had to hold my nose, and avert my eyes, figuratively speaking.)<BR/><BR/><BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/>Omg, what was he smoking back then! It is written in the style of those loony-left wing papers collegs kids try to sell you! - anon<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Indeed. But nowdays, some so-called right-wing intellectuals behave in similar ways as well.Red Granthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08066324554026925595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-21788928039739089252008-11-08T08:05:00.000-08:002008-11-08T08:05:00.000-08:00___________________________________It doesn't real...___________________________________<BR/><BR/>It doesn't really matter if they live according to their religion. <BR/><BR/>Not all Christians love their neighbor... - damien<BR/>-----------------------------------<BR/><BR/>Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. - James 2:17<BR/><BR/>http://bible.cc/james/2-17.htm<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>People who call themselves Christians, but do not love their neighbor have no faith in Jesus as their personal saivor.<BR/><BR/>Another word, they are fraudulent imposters either posing and/or deluding themselves to be Christians.<BR/><BR/>Not Christians at all.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/>Red Grant,<BR/><BR/>Please look over Citizen Warrior's second comment here, if you haven't already.<BR/><BR/>You may have to go down a ways.<BR/><BR/>And while you are at it, you might want to check out, the Infidel_Bloggers_Alliance, Jihad_Watch, Religion_Of_Peace, and Citizen_Warrior's own blog. - Damien<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Damien, if citizen warrior wants to come here for debate, I am all game.<BR/><BR/>But I already know enough about the Bible, better than most people I've come across. (At one time, I was going to enter the seminary to become a priest, so I think I have a pretty good idea of what it means to be a Christian.)<BR/><BR/>Or you can use what you've learned from those sites to discuss what means to be a Christian.Red Granthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08066324554026925595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-28463926233875913792008-11-08T07:35:00.000-08:002008-11-08T07:35:00.000-08:00___________________________________A Christian is ...___________________________________<BR/><BR/>A Christian is someone who believes that Jesus is their personal savior,... - damien<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>I agree, but, what about someone who merely thinks he/she believes that Jesus is her/his personal savior, but<BR/><BR/>does not, in actuality, believe that Jesus is her/his personal savior?<BR/><BR/><BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/>...while a Muslim is someone who believes Mohammad was a prophet. - damien<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/> What about someone who merely thinks he/she believes Mohammad was a prophet, but in actuality, does not believe that Mohammad was a prophet?Red Granthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08066324554026925595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29196034.post-62639854339195839382008-11-08T07:26:00.000-08:002008-11-08T07:26:00.000-08:00___________________________________Objective is an...___________________________________<BR/><BR/>Objective is anything that can be proven to be true or false, meaning it's validity is dependent on reality, <BR/><BR/>as opposed to subjective that is based on one views of reality, or statements about reality that is based on faith. - Herbswell<BR/>-----------------------------------<BR/><BR/>Who decides who and what is anti-American objectively? - Red Grant<BR/><BR/><BR/>Individuals decide what is true and what is false. Their evaluation might be contradictory. - Herbswell<BR/><BR/>-----------------------------------<BR/>"Does this mean then you believe that "morality" is relative to each individual?" - Red Grant<BR/><BR/>Of course it's relative. - Herbswell<BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Does this mean then you believe that there is no such thing as objective morality?<BR/><BR/>or<BR/><BR/>Are you contradicting yourself?Red Granthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08066324554026925595noreply@blogger.com